037: Negotiating with Lucy Zhao

No one knows the powers of persuasion quite like a recovering Girl Boss

Jun 13, 2024

Everyone has a niche, and this week, Lucy Zhao’s sharing hers.

Lucy is a self-proclaimed “recovering girl boss” and one-half of my new favourite podcast, Everything I Know About (TikTok & Instagram).

It’s very That’s Niche.

Each week, Lucy and Jennifer (stay tuned for Jennifer’s niche) dive into a random corner of the internet, exploring the science behind supplements or debating the morality of Am I The Asshole Reddit threads.

Lucy’s also a former McKinsey consultant, C-suite startup leader, 2x founder and now podcast host, which brings us to her niche: Negotiation 101.

With pearls of wisdom like “Is 15 minutes of discomfort worth thousands of dollars?” Here’s Lucy’s take on That’s Niche.

That’s Niche: Negotiation 101

Lucy’s Expertise:

Ever since I read How to Win Friends and Influence People in high school, I’ve been fascinated with the subtle ways we win people to our side. The world is run by people, as imperfect as we are, and the ability to persuade others can be a real superpower.

Today’s tips will focus on negotiation, though the principles have plenty of overlap with interviewing well, gaining influence in an organization, developing rapport with your manager, and even becoming dangerous in the dating market…

I’ve negotiated my salary and title in 5 different jobs and volunteered as a pay equity advisor. I’ve also been on the other side of the table, hiring and negotiating with candidates…

Play the reframe game.

More than half of us are not negotiating offers, and the reasons are totally understandable. It’s anxiety-inducing! We don’t want to be judged, and we fear the unknown: will my offer be rescinded? Will I look “greedy?”
As someone who’s hired for many roles, it’s very hard to find the ideal person. If you’ve gotten an offer, it’s because you’re the best person for the job. If the company was unsure, they would simply wait. So, you don’t need multiple offers nor a high salary already to negotiate. You have leverage just by earning the offer.
$20K, $40K, even $100K is miniscule in a company’s budget, but that money means a lot to you.
~70% of employers are expecting you to negotiate, which means their initial offer is going to be on the lower end of the salary range. If you don’t even ask, you’re leaving money on the table that they thought they’d give you.

Don’t psych yourself out.

A couple questions to ask yourself:
Is 15 minutes of discomfort worth thousands of dollars?
Am I thinking in false dichotomies?
I can be grateful AND negotiate
I can ask for more time AND be excited about the offer
I can want a company to succeed AND be paid fairly for my work. -> I often hear this from people with an offer at a startup. They feel bad asking for more money. Don’t!
Does the company measure up to my expectations during the negotiation process?
You made it through a long interview process, and now it’s your turn to evaluate them. How they treat you now is indicative of how they’ll treat you on the job.
How would I advise a friend or family member in my situation?
Whatever you would do for them, you should do for yourself. You’ve got to be your own advocate because the company is not looking out for you.

Dig for data.

With salary transparency laws becoming more common (NYC’s passed in 2022), job posts are a great place to start! Though the listed range is typically cash compensation only and not comprehensive, you can look up equivalent roles at similar companies to get a sense for benchmarks.
Know what data the company uses to set salary ranges. Most startups use a free tool called Pave for benchmarking. Inputs like experience level, geography, job function, funds raised, etc., go into a model that displays salaries at different percentiles. If you have any contacts in HR or founder friends, they may be able to get you access to Pave data for your specific situation.
If you and the company disagree on the inputs going into the model, this is a great place to start the negotiation. Persuade them why you should be leveled higher or why your role actually belongs in a function with higher salary benchmarks. This is how you increase a quoted compensation range.
Other data sources:
Levels.FYI (for big tech)
Blind (for tech and business)

Think out of the box.

Most people don’t realize that there are opportunities to negotiate salary and benefits outside of the initial job offer. I negotiated a salary increase 3 months into a job and twice negotiated a severance package when quitting.
How? High level, it’s becoming unafraid to ask. Beyond that, getting the answer you hope for comes down to understanding what motivates the person you’re negotiating with and presenting your case compellingly.
How this played out for me: in an early job, I gave my two weeks notice to the CEO. Later that day, I was chatting with a mentor, and he asked me if I asked the CEO for a package. I said no…I didn’t even know you could do that. He said, you can always ask. I went back to the CEO and asked for a severance package. I got one.

It’s hard to overcome the social conditioning that makes negotiating difficult. Even if it takes a glass of wine to send that email asking for a raise or starting with something simpler like negotiating your gym bill, seize opportunities to advocate for yourself. It does get easier with practice! Hopefully, these tips make you a little richer & you spread the love 😉